Murat Karatas and Tjeerd Ritmeester are both council members of PvdA (labour party) in Eindhoven. Together, the two visit high schools and other institutions to talk about Israel and Palestine. “Precisely by talking you find out that you have the same standards and values”, they said.
The two city council members have known each other for a long time, are both PvdA members and serve on the Eindhoven city council on behalf of that party. Tjeerd has a Jewish background, Murat is Muslim. But where for years they discussed all sorts of things with each other, silence followed on 7 October, 2023.
Unwell
That day Hamas carried out a surprise attack on Israel and began the war that continues to this day. “That terror attack touched me very deeply”, Ritmeester says. “It was one of the few news stories in my life of which I became physically unwell. I also had contact with many people about it, but not with Murat. I found that strange”.
Ritmeester realised that it was more important than ever to stay in touch and talk about the conflict right now. “I was surprised by his phone call”, Karatas says, “because I didn’t realise that Tjeerd is of Jewish descent, and the news from Israel had such great impact on him. You saw how much impact that attack had because Israel considered itself safe. But I was afraid of what the counterattack would make worse”.
Pro-Israel
“Look, the conflict obviously didn’t start on 7 October”, Karatas said. “For me, the situation of the Palestinians is an issue that has concerned me all my life. But the Western view of things is always very pro-Israel. That does cause you to speak little about it. On social media you might post something about it once in a while, but nothing more”.
“I also don’t say everything I think”, Ritmeester says. “I can emphasise that Hamas has a very big part in the conflict but the situation has changed. After the prisoners were exchanged, the Israeli far-right government started to crack down even harder after that. The suffering they are causing now is indefensible”.
Norms and values
As the conflict continues, Karatas and Ritmeester seem to be coming closer together in how they see things. “That’s what we wanted to achieve with the dialogue. We have an opinion about about something Israel is doing, or about what Hamas is doing. And we can talk about that together. And Murat and I have the same background and share the same values”, Ritmeester said.
“In the beginning, there was a lot of caution back and forth”, Karatas says. “I was afraid of hurting Tjeerd with my view of the conflict. In the beginning, the word genocide was hardly used in the media and I didn’t say that either also to not to hurt Tjeerd. I dare to mention it now”.
Human lives
“What you want from your interlocutor is also an acknowledgement of your suffering”, Karatas says. “And because in society we are often defending our own views, it is difficult to have an eye for the other person’s views. Tjeerd must feel bad for me that a Palestinian is dying. You want an affirmation of your own suffering. And that is our common value, that a human life matters. Whether it’s an Israeli or a Palestinian”.
“I look for that with Murat, too”, Ritmeester says. “The violence doesn’t make the world a safer place for Israelis and Jews either. And in the debate about it, people let themselves go all over the place, dehumanising Israelis, denying the country’s right to exist and sometimes even anti-Semitism, those things I also get personally on my plate. That is disturbing. Besides, you don’t easily walk arm in arm with people who have a different agenda”.
Approach
“It is very good that 100,000 people demonstrated in The Hague against Israel’s war violence”, Ritmeester continued. “But I also know people who would like to participate in such a demonstration if they were in Israel but don’t do so here, because of the way they are sometimes approached”.
At the same time, Ritmeester also sees the importance of activist groups that have ensured that attention to the issue has not waned. “It has, and I think on a small scale we have contributed to that with our dialogues”.
Source: Studio040
Translated by: Bob
